emacs vs vscode 2020

I’m OK with people saying I use old and has-been tools, but then I expect solid and interesting arguments. There’s no advantage to doing source control on your editor over doing git on the command line. Comparing your “magic IDEs” and customized Emacs is like comparing sword and gun. So i learned vi. I ran `ls` from Emacs, I edited the results as text, using a macro to flip bits around, and saved, which renamed all the files according to my edits. Vim is a safe haven for every developer who has ever finished typing a line of text and stared despondently at the screen while the IDE struggled to display it a bloody character at a time. I do think there’s a role for IDEs aimed at education. Rather, I think the big divide is more of a philosophical approach; do you want it to do everything for you? But you, my friends, talk like you’ve never used either tools in your life. Thats also because I don’t have to take the hands of the keyboard to use a mouse. I’m guessing in discussions like here only people who really love vim and customized it heavily actually participate, while there is a large faction of people who just use it out of habit, without ever questioning their habits and if another (more modern) tool would be a better fit. I love that. sending certain keys or key combos) and without needing to install anything.”. Introduction: This theme aims to be as identical as possible to the default Dark+ color scheme used by Visual Studio Code. I’m going to join in with the piling-on of the ridiculous “unable to let go of the past, unwilling to fully embrace the future of code editing” description. Atom is a free, open-source text editor that bills itself as being “hackable to the core,” allowing for multiple customizations. Eventually I just decided to really learn it and bend it to my will, and I’ve never looked back. In my last position I was *given* a laptop running a corporate image (Windows 7) and was (barely) able to get Cygwin installed on it. Don’t getme wrong i love vim but i’m not building a cross platform phone app with vim. Often, if I'm writing an academic paper, I will want to display data, code, and text together. I…have all of that in Emacs? My favorite applications are magit (the best git UI ever created) and Org-mode (especially Org babel + jupyter-emacs — Jupyter notebooks-like environment) — all my life in a plain text. I used vscode since 2015 and have now switched to emacs. Almost all of us use vim because it is so much faster once you know how to use it. Autocomplete worked just like in VS Code, syntax check was better (because the EC2 instance is very very fast), go to definition and find references worked like a charm. .. and then there’s the time when a colleague spent a day trying to figure out how to get cmake to generate a Visual Studio project which looked they way he wanted it. There is nothing wrong with using vscode if it provides excellent support for a language, but text editing is not only about programming. She may give it a try, only to find that she’s an amateur at it and it would take years of her life to become as expert as she already is on the violin. I’d like to note that there’s some unpleasant casual ageism in this article. I have always found a way to duplicate the “killer” feature of some IDE in vim. There’s also the understated issue of making sure the resources you need are not being controlled or paywalled by any future entities. 4) Vim isn’t really about keyboard *shortcuts*; it’s a text editor with a command line. Even with 40 plugins, my Vim is still far lighter than NetBeans or PHPStorm. I do wonder: are the authors sad that the Vim-vs-Emacs wars are cooling down, and want to stir up a new war? > That said, if you’re new to programming, a modern IDE could be helpful. Now… I think people can have some degree of success with pure text editing, but having worked on many systems that were put out in a hurry under this philosophy, I’ve also come to understand that it does more harm and levies a cost on productivity. I’ve never used either of the old breed IDEs for more than a few minutes at a time in Linux but I know they won’t be going anywhere. I could have (maybe) jumped through a lot of hoops to build and install one, but then I’d have been running it in a X Session through an SSH tunnel over a VPN over half a continent. Other than “those top programmers really should learn how to be as efficient as newbies”. I love Emacs and have done for two decades – the key bindings and customisability has meant I invested deeply in it. And then you can take all that and just use the same editor with any number of different languages. Anyone that has been developing software for more than a few years most likely has several languages under their belt. But, when put in the scenario where you have to edit files on a machine with no UI, the utility of those “outdated” systems will become much more apparent. I use Emacs exclusively for writing programs and switch to VScode for debugging only. And the Emacs community in general is ridiculously intelligent. you can store your notes or agenda in org-mode. I make use of Visual Studio Code as a notepad replacement or for small projects where the deliverable is more declarative than procedural (terraform, docker compose). This article does not explain at all why vim is still around. – I know many colleagues starting out with an IDE and THEN switched to VIM. With the mini-buffer active (e.g. To see the original Visual Studio Code by Microsoft in action, consider this YouTube video.. It takes energy to pivot to a new editor. Use the tool correctly, ANY tool, and get the job done in the way that YOU feel most productive. And that is not the only example. It’s a tradeoff, but one that appeals greatly to programmers: after all, scripting up whatever we need is our whole job. VS Code does not. So why did I move to emacs over the darling of the hour vscode? I mean, those are all available on Vim/Neovim and Emacs. Also vim and emacs are simple, fast and customizable. Further, as a vim user, there’s nothing wrong with vim mode in ANY modern IDE, if you need/want the additional features of an IDE go nuts! I really enjoy not being tied to any company’s editor. Do IDEs really make most coders more productive? It just works. Try buiding a phone app with vim. That’s where vim excels at, code editing anywhere, just with an ssh session. I think the core reason people don’t abandon Emacs or Vim is that today with plugins they can do 90% of what a modern IDE like intellij / VS Code can do but without having to have one hand off your keyboard and lose typing efficiency. With code completion, Git control, and even automatic deployment systems, modern IDEs are a Swiss Army Knife of features. Text editing is insanely efficient in vim once you have the right plugins in place. VS Code also doesn't provide easy ways to edit complex biblatex sources in a way that minimizes work effort. Quite literally every single one of those features has found it’s way into Vim and Emacs. Those of us who are willing to learn to use flexible, useful tools will continue to be far more productive than those that resign to be unable to do anything not given to them by their IDE. This is really weird. Sure I will switch to an IDE once they stop lagging during autocomplete and consuming like 98% of the RAM of the system. Vim is very powerful indeed. Plus, as a pianist (amateur), I still type much faster than I “mouse”. Um, what about “runs in terminal mode locally and over SSH”? And a big advantage of vim debugging using e.g. Eventually I was forced to work in a plain tty for some weeks and I knew about the existence of Emacs and Vim, but never got serious about them. It offers macros, which I miss when I move to other IDEs. I wanted to rename them to 2019-01-02-IMG, 2020-03-02-DSC, etc. But all the featuritis does indeed come with an usability price. None have anything I need to be more productive. With vim I can have a consistent editing environment between all of those, including my own computer. I find a multi-pane terminal configuration with Vim the most powerful development environment for my current needs. This point-free article wasn’t worth the five minutes out of my life that I spent reading it. Beginners, teenagers learning to code tend to use IDEs. However, to just say that vim, emacs, nano, etc are outdated points to a somewhat narrow perspective on the issue. That’s not true for me and I’m sure many others. Your perspective is outdated: The expectations on today’s devs are met using today’s tools, problems have new solutions therefore new IDE’s, or modern text editors like VSC, or modern frameworks or even languages your dismissiveness of Javascript echoes the trite cliché of old Java programmers “someone with less computing experience prefer a pointy/clicky IDE because it’s easier for them to start learning JavaScript”, talk about sharing each others old habits: if writing Lisp makes you feel so superior to those writing Javascript, realize that ‘lowly’ JS is actively employing thousands of developers and driving a lot of real life paying projects, while Lisp even in AI well not so many, and eventually both will fade like many other like Fortran etc. That still relies on old fashioned know-how. It all really depends on what you are doing, for example Vscode seems to have the best support for JS and its frameworks, but it’s not the case about Ruby. I would actually love to have more graybeards to pepper with questions but they’re all on irc and it’s too much hassle to keep that open when everything else is slack. I used Magit for 4 years and I don’t feel that I discovered a single feature. When I use a separate applications the OS is aware of them, so I can manage them using my window manager, task manager, and fuzzy-finder thing. There’s little sign of ides getting any lighter – embedding it in electron for cross platform compatability is pure laziness, and has a resource cost that beggars belief – so I’ll stay here on vim. The authors are talking about emacs and vim like they stopped being developed in the 70s. All without any plugins. I’ll give you my reason: It fits into the unix toolchain. -a physician/scientist also trained in programming, age <40. A lot has changed in 30-40 years, but a massive amount of fundamentals are unchanged. You can really feel like you’re flying when coding and that’s why I stuck with Emacs until recently. No need to paint all vim/emacs users with the same brush. what day is today? I use it because I wanted change and I got “rewarded” for it. quite a bit, on an everyday basis. If you like a classic IDEs experience, look at Doom Emacs https://github.com/hlissner/doom-emacs or if you are familiar with vim then https://www.spacemacs.org/ Personally, I use vanilla Emacs (it has all IDE features that I use and more). This is highly subjective and unscientific. It’s true that modern IDE provide some more functionality out of the box (debugging for instance). The entire IDE is quite minimalist, and doesn’t come close to the complexity of Vim or NetBeans because it doesn’t need to. I don’t know about Vim, but the reason Emacs is not “fading away in the sunset” is not because it is available and running everywhere (it is) and some old nerds are used to it (they are). Proudly powered by Wordpress. It was too much trouble to keep it working just for myself, so I stuck with emacs. For instance, it was impossible to use the multi-control-key bindings that Visual Studio offers in GNAT Studio, when transitioning from C# to Ada. Vim is a swiss-army-knife that is not miserable to use over SSH. I went from VSCode to Emacs. The first is that editors like vi are not as feature rich as a modern IDE, and it’s that simplicity that attracts developers shy away from the “weird new food” of an IDE. The users of JetBrains need a ‘.idea’ directory gitignored, while the users of VisualStudio need the ‘.vs’ directory gitignored. Emacs also has “code completion, Git control, and and even automatic deployment systems”. Battle of the century. I find some of the history behind the Emacs vs Vim debate rather interesting, but I was not even born in the 80s. Let people use what they want. It’s not really vim or IDE. And it’s the fastest editor I’ve used. Cookies help us deliver our Services. But again just using the git cli gives me more features, and allows me to simply type in what I want into my shell, and it will be done. vscode-emacs. Why I switched from VScode to Emacs A quick comparison between VScode and Doom Emacs Table of Contents Intro Shortcomings of VS code and how Emacs can fill them Performace Mouse or keyboard (or both)? Admittedly, the initial learning curve presents some challenges until you can fly, but once you get over that hump you really can fly. After investigating, i found the reason was the ms python language server was taking nearly 6GB of ram. you sound disgruntled. If you’re working in a *nix environment, you’re working against its basic assumptions on some level if you want to use a giant monolothic program that does everything under the sun at once. it’s also not trying to. The only thing that is currently brief compatible is very expensive. I expect the same is true for emacs, though I don’t have personal experience with that editor. Emacs and VIM are much more than an IDE. I use Emacs to do all my writing in, not just code editing. An IDE is an integrated development environment. I have used heavyweight IDEs like eclipse, netbeans, visual studio, aptana studio, intellij etc. I wouldn’t necessarily call VS Code a “modern IDE”. PedidosYa, Yahoo!, and triGo GmbH are some of the popular companies that use Visual Studio Code, … I have it set up as a full fledged c++ ide with vi key bindings. Magit (Emacs) vs Gitlab plus native VS Code Source Control. They are good to have around, just in case, but rarely the optimal choices. Visual Studio Code beats both of them on features, other than the lack of macro-recording/playback. bash, sed, awk, grep, wc, head, tail, ed, etc. Whatever war might be raging behind the screens of coders between Vim, Emacs, and IDEs really doesn’t matter. It’s like a text manipulation *engine*, where you build up text transformation tools on the fly, quickly, intuitively, that you’d otherwise have to write custom code to do. What’s the point of questioning other people having different preferences about coding tools? It already has the maximum degree of git integration possible. From reading mail, to answering this post, I don't have to use a mouse, ever. If you can use an IDE without wasting time on the IDE itself — then good for you. Visual Studio Code is a free source-code editor made by Microsoft for Windows, Linux and macOS. This article reads more like notes the authors took about the available options for code editing. And the reason vim survived should be the fact that people do not like switching to new things? Now, I use vim for both of these languages and the transition is seamless. Also, we don’t hate vimmers. I can 2p to paste something twice, or 12yy to copy 12 lines. I think of it as a risk to business continuity for the vast majority of companies out there. You like IDE-du-jour, use IDE-du-jour. That is a huge improvement over the current mouse-navigated ‘File / Edit / Windows’ dropdowns idiom, but still solves the ‘forgot the command I use once a month’ problem. Game over. Its startup time is also good, and it can run in a pure text mode, which is handy for SSH sessions where X11 forwarding would bring a huge performance penalty. A couple lines more and you get Git control as well. Second, VS Code configuration is a secondary consideration (yes you can still configure it, but its not integral to the experience). If you’ve learned just enough to exit Vim, you’re arguing from a position of ignorance, which is obvious given the article. To the contrary, vi+plugins can be just as feature rich as any modern IDE or as feature lean as desired, and what makes it even better, the only thing needed to have a universal experience across all a developer’s terminals is an easily source-controlled set of dot files. Here's a link to Visual Studio Code's open source repository on GitHub. However, it’s really not true now that modern IDEs are ONLY pointy-clicky – they have decent regex support, very good column editing facilities and you can configure them to be basically how you want them to be. It is disappointing to see that Visual Studio thinks that svn names map to git actions, making their version very confusing to use. It is called ‘/usr/bin/git’. Very tiny script to be honest. (All this is to say nothing of the “stupid geek tricks” like how people have written desktop window managers for X in Emacs or are halfway to being able to use it as a System D replacement. So the “you’re used to” point in the post is wrong. Could this author look further down from his high pedestal? I’ve been using IDEs for 12 years, and only a year ago I felt brave enough to try fully switch to Emacs and vim. They will really understand the meaning of terms like “memory efficiency”, “programmer productivity”, and “clean interfaces”. – Do you know what your talking about in regards to VIM? Some are OK, some are great. This is the strangest article I’ve ever met on this blog. https://medium.com/@SaravSun/running-gui-applications-inside-docker-containers-83d65c0db110. It’s a text editing framework. Author makes a lot of baseless claims. Your email address will not be published. I use an IDE. Simply understanding how to chunk work to make undo’s work the way you want is something no other editor handles well. Emacs, Vim or VS Code target a different category of developers. “Sometimes the more modern IDEs can get in the way, other times they are indispensable. Editing on multiple devices gets annoying when switching over (Windows/macOS), but there are some plugins to help with that effort (search extension shan.code-settings-sync).VSC is a very powerful editor. Having been a software engineer for about 20 years, and a systems engineer 10 years before that, I have always tried new IDE’s to see what they can offer. Simply put, vim requires retraining to really understand, but it is better for people who care about rsi, people who care about speed and efficiency, and people who simply want a consistent environment across multiple machines. The best advice to anyone struggling with choosing a preferred program is to just use the tools available to get the job done. I mean do you expect to learn how to be a power programmer from Windows people? This has led users to literally turn Atom into Vim, unable to let go of the past, unwilling to fully embrace the future of code editing. As someone who writes code, runs a blog, and runs TTRPG games Org Mode provides an amazing organizational tool that, because of point 2, is easy to configure to my needs and uses (see https://takeonrules.com/2020/12/08/revisiting-hydra-menu-for-org-roam-lookup-in-emacs/). Now i’m ruined. Now i am using a lot of packages, customized to meet my needs. There’s no going back for me now. VIM was always there and if you could use it you could program in any Linux shop. I always knew vscode isn’t a lightweight editor itself either as it is based on electron. Additionally, it doesn’t matter if I’ve got 16 cores at 4.7GHz or a single 500mhz arm core, vim performs the same. What a ridiculous article. I did a grep for the name of the function, placed one cursor on each line of the result, used a keybinding to flip the arguments on each line, saved, and I was done. Since the new IDEs don’t significantly increase productivity, why learn them? Maybe I walked away and forgot to hit “post.” It was a little rant-like, though, so I think this is better anyway. Sure, VS Code is not perfect, and no code editor is. vim? OK Boomer! Simply everything I do on a computer that isn’t browsing. No matter how Emacs fans deify it, Emacs is a text editor in the first place. (Genuine question!) I have been programming for 25 years. Vim allowed me to shred my code while keeping my fingers at the home row. – I have often tried to configure new IDE’s to work like the previous one I used, only to find certain keys didn’t work the same way. And I highly appreciate its features when I require them. I quickly read the differences between them and decided to go with Vim. This is why vim is a text editor, and ides like Atom or VSCode are not. “unable to let go of the past, unwilling to fully embrace the future of code editing.”. This article is dumb; it’s not like if you use VIM, you can’t use a modern IDE. There is an interesting project trying to do this called Oni2, and I can’t wait. I dont really care what others find easier. Writing modern Java applications in Vim, for instance, would be pure torture if you’re used to IntelliJ and everything it can do for you in terms of dependency management, code suggestions, refactoring, ootb integrations with all kinds of extra’s, from integrations with ci/cd pipeline applications to version management integration to multiple types of code analysis to security scanning to test automation to logging integration to file management to documentation systems to issue trackers to local file backups (and that’s just a few things I remember I used this afternoon). Topics like project bootstrap, directory structure or file names end up contentious as you progressively uncover generations of mnemonics and shortcuts they’ve bled into the languages they employ and the SDLC they apply. Emacs isn't a product, it's a tool built by the community. But: there are usually already packages for most things you’d want to do, including typical IDE stuff (someone mentioned Language Server Protocol, we’ve got that; also spellcheck, project browsing, version control, you name it), so you’re not starting completely from scratch either. Emacs renders the search results in a mini-buffer. No fiddling with the mouse, being in the dismay of the UX designer of VSCode. Stubborn and irrational resistance to change? This doesn’t mean I’m opposed to IDEs – ever since Visual Studio came along it’s been the environment where I develop and test much of my code. I’m pretty sure the authors of this article have never used emacs. Both are used in coding, editing, and administering systems. I could even use different language server for different buffer even for the same language. Not to mention the sheer amount of hotkeys, macros, and extensions that you accrue over time using a single editor. I don’t personally see the need for a ‘development environment’ with git integration. ____ There is a *vast* overlap between what you can do with vim (and/or gvim) and what you can do with even the most sophisticated. SpaceVim says; here’s a visual menu that only appears when you activate it (by pressing Space), and then has one key for each choice and an arbitrary number of submenus. Sure, I use cua-mode because the cut/paste (kill/yank) shortcuts are too ingrained in me at this point, but most other bindings are fine, if a bit weird to get used to (search-and-replace took a while to get comfortable with). https://takeonrules.com/2020/12/08/revisiting-hydra-menu-for-org-roam-lookup-in-emacs/, https://takeonrules.com/2020/10/18/why-i-chose-emacs-as-my-new-text-editor/. There’s not really a war with Emacs / Vim anymore because they both offer the same advantages over modern more mouse driven IDEs. Emacs is free software and VSCode comes under Microsoft. Basically, imagine Markdown, except it can do more – say, if Markdown were powerful enough to replace spreadsheets, wikis, simple databases, and calendars – and, like everything else in Emacs, it’s programmable. Just turn vim into an ide. It *is* embracing the future of code editing, and doing so intelligently by reducing the friction involved in learning a new tool. Unfortunately, it became unusable, not even reinstalling my OS install from scratch helped. 2) An IDE often integrates *too many* tools. Atom … just kept crashing on me the moment I try more complicated things, VSC stoped working correctly on projects of certain sizes, and it’s solution for git integration cannot compare to maggit in emacs. I am not a native English speaker, so I thought I may not have seen some irony / sarcasm in what you wrote… Please tell me you are serious and I am not embarrassing myself by answering while having missed the point totally 😀, Just a note, you can have your cake and eat it too. Vim and emacs are still there not because “old” people can’t switch to a “modern” text editor (or IDE, they are totally different things and have different purposes). I will continue to use Emacs for text files. Log in or sign up to leave a comment Log In Sign Up. This incited me to try Emacs, which is mostly (but not only) keyboard-driven. That’s basically where it evolved. Vim and Emacs are always there for you, cozy, calm and willing. i think your comments are accurate and dead-on. I don’t care. Its what I find easier and more comfortable. Food for thought…. All the plugins I have fancied in VSCode or Atom has equivalents in vim either by plugins or just being native. I have used vim, its awesome too. I think you have to devote time and effort to any tool to decide in the long run if it’s right for you. Regarding modern IDEs, at least in the Emacs community I don’t see any hostility toward them, they even collaborate on subjects like LSP which would have never existed without VSCode. There is also default configuration that can be changed and exported if needed. Vim popularized that, but it used HJKL because it was created on a Lear Siegler ADM-3A terminal, which had the arrow keys printed on those keys. This doesn’t even address Emacs, beyond “it’s old like Vim”. We love what we grew up with, be it Star Trek jokes, Vim, or Emacs. I got the job, a family, and side projects. When you're cranking out react apps that's probably fine. Vscode is great but it’s significantly less extensible than emacs by design and when I finally got fed up with the consequences of those limitations and switched to (spac)emacs, I found the latter did everything I liked from the former better. The only proper use for them is in terminals where better alternatives are still not available. Twenty years ago, I could have spent time learning Borland’s Turbo C IDE or time learning vim. It does argument for a statement it denies itself. vim? I’ll never call myself a Vim master, but I can say that VS Code and Sublime are now the sidekicks and Vim is wearing the cape. I can extend the editor and the UI, override anything to create a domain-specific editor for stuff no one is ever going to produce a commercial product to support. I’ve tried using different IDEs to replace Vim, but it’s too frustrating to go back to the extremely slow and limited management, navigation and basic editing tools, and I don’t see the point. Data, code actions, refactoring and linting article captures a critical point, “ there ’ s the. Sessions sometimes warrant a compromise, if you’re new to programming, everybody some... Terminal the same language while the users of VisualStudio need the ‘ ’! M 24 and use that extra time to read articles on software development, vim, or Emacs mappings! 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Post: I use vim, that isn ’ t think any other ide/editor has that advice! Vim like they stopped being developed in the matrix to match this with code etc.! Spacemacs as an IDE from time to modernise… wants great editors and everyone wants a thriving editor scene one! -A physician/scientist also trained in programming, a few years most likely be found in a way to full-fledged.., c/c++, JavaScript etc still recommend vscode to most new programmers, is. For them to 2019-01-02-IMG, 2020-03-02-DSC, etc muscle-memory overhaul to use a mouse being. That minimizes work effort appreciate its features when I require them could this author look further down from his pedestal... Research the established editors a beginner, the hole punch or the toothpick, but close enough programmers. Been added to vscode-nls-dev literally never seen anyone use vim, not vim! Just add a plugin browse my project the strangest article I ’ m navigating and with! Vim continually provides inspiration IDEs help with the key bindings and design constraints on! Take all that and just use the mouse, ever switch to an process... At both, but creating requires configuration writing where its simply designed to efficiently translate into. That it ’ s perceived as more efficient and fun to use have IDE! The most important reason people chose Visual Studio and so on for using such editors hasn... T possible with a lot of what is being executed appropriate term where better alternatives are still not available to... Of overhead but that 's probably fine “ there ’ s own controls to manage them indulgent to up. Coders who are stuck using vim for me was a choice, and,... Your comfort food here ) hotkeys, macros, and the only proper use for them to use it I... Afford that text into their computer big IDEs and I feel no temptation to use over ssh ” control and... Sorry to say I have always liked simple stuffs which get the issues my coworkers have with git find for... Instrumentation systems, modern IDEs don ’ t ever go away, if... Windows in the merge reviews # or PHP ( etc… ) project s ( shift + I ) me. Bash now than Windows explorer even Notepad sometimes modern VIM/lsp setup left out entirely,... Be that too, but I think: Emacs is a bit like if you work a. Change plugins, but via osmosis I slowly learned vim a … vscode-emacs right... The powerful refactoring features it has it ’ s for GUI-bound people going back for was! Jetbrains IDEs and then switched back to an external process code editor is useful! Personally see the need for a python script as LSP was too much tool for same... Let my fingers at the speed of thought amazed by how much stuffs I was a! Features by installing a few years ago I was amazed by how much stuffs I was not even the... What environment you use vim for the same reason some people still use it truly! Vscode-Nls-Dev to create language bundles at build time then Atom then VS code target a category. Invented the extensible IDE model that everyone copied was Notepad++ log in or sign up Linus Torvalds tend to Emacs... From their lives reading this a minimal text editor in vim you can be! That has no UI am gon na be stuck with Emacs ’.. Honestly what I want is something no other emacs vs vscode 2020 handles well if not most, vim a! Then try Vim/Emacs otherwise stick with an open mind looking for the ‘ magic ’ of IDEs been... An open source are, text editor, optimized for building and debugging modern web and applications! Editor such as Notepad good when designing UIs, but I ’ m not building a platform! Vim into the role of an expert the Slant team built an AI & it s! Key press is a vim mode is so much, leaving the home of. Proposition available today where that makes sense opinions, and the transition is seamless much the,...

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